Rama or Krishna - are they Gods after all??

Rama or Krishna - are they Gods after all??

Answer might be yes or no.
I have discussed similar topics at length with various people for long and I have bought their views. Thought of sharing it.

OK let us keep aside Rama/Krishna/ Vishnu etc...

Is Saibaba (Shirdi or Puttaparthi) God or Godman??
Many of us believe it and many don't.
But over the past few generations, you can see Saibaba temples are built and followers still exist.
Saibaba might have been an "ordinary" man with great thoughts/ethics and people appreciated it.
And at later stages after he died, Saibaba got promoted to Godman/God status.

Same case for Ramakrishna Paramahamsa or Ramana Maharshee etc.
There have been huge followers of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sharadadevi etc.
(Though right now, it is fading away.)

Similarly Rama or Krishna might have been the greatest Emperors of India who did more right things than wrongs.
Hence there might have been huge number of people who started following/promoting them to Godman/God status. Eventually temples might have been built for them.

If you buy this argument, then there should be evidence for Rama's/Krishna's existence as well.
But!!! You might not find the proof of their existence as such because of various factors.
1> the time period is way too old
2> Number of kings who have invaded India after Rama-Krishna generations.
3> How invaders took away the valuable things from India back to their home.
4> How India/Indians have preserved its monuments (especially in last few centuries)

So it might be very difficult to prove the existence of person. But when you overall look at Ramayana/Mahabharata and relate all the things depicted, you will indeed see that, events did take place.

I think it is Mahabharata, (if my memory serves me right), Vyasa has mentioned dates in both Lunar and Solar calendars.
And these dates can be(have been) converted to Gregorian Calendar.
(If I am right, Ramayana mentions the dates only in Lunar calendars, and hence dating backwards is difficult)

In Mahabharata, since the dates can be tracked back and the incidence of Jayadhratha (where Krishna covers the sun), which is now touted as complete Solar Eclipse has also been figured out.

There have been other things such as names of cities....

For eg., Khandahar -- is nothing but Gandhara of Shakuni.
Name is almost intact for ages now.
Ayodhya/Mathura/ Dwaraka - the names of these places haven't changed at all.
In fact Gandhara is also depicted in Ramayana.
I am not sure how many know that Kaikeyi was from Gandhara.
(When Dasharatha was in death bed, Bharatha was in Gandhara (now Afghanistan) as per Ramayana.)

There are other things mentioned in Mahabharata like King Shalya was from other side of Himalayas(may be a Chinese/Mangolean)
And Mahabharata clearly specifies that, Shalya and his people were talking a different language/dialect too.

For instance in Ramayana, when you look at the depiction about Sri Lanka and its nature, you might really wonder, did Valmiki indeed travel to Lanka and see how the environment was?
But thing to note is, Valmiki's depiction about Lanka is very close to what in reality is.
Depiction of Kishkinda where lot of stones/caves were there, is very close to the reality (now Bellary district, Karnataka).

Though these things might not prove anything about actual incidence and can be true in any story too, it is hard to believe that, one particular author roamed entire 'Bharatha Khanda' to write one single story.

Imagine a person traveling from Afghanistan to Himalayas to Sri Lanka to write this single novel? Hard to believe it.

So, I believe when you over all look into it, the incidence might have take place irrespective of whether Rama is God or not.

It is important to observe and imbibe the lessons from these Epics instead of figuring out Rama/Krisha are gods or not or whether Ramayana is just a story or actual incidence which took place.

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After thought:
If Pushpaka Vimana indeed existed, Valmiki might have travelled across the continent and written beautiful story of Rama ;)

Update
======

I forgot to mention that, Rama's birth has been mentioned in both Lunar and Solar calenders.
(Chaitra Maasa Shukla Navami as per Lunar Calendar and Punarvasu Star, Vrushchika Lagna as per Solar Calendar)
And Ramayana also provides Kundali (Horoscope) of Rama, which depicts the planetary positions at that point of time.
Hence this date has been traced back.
Based on this info one of the researches said,
Rama was born on Janaury 10th, 4039 BC and other research said January 10th, 5114 BC.

San Jose Flyover

Pic taken from 4-seater Cessna plane...
I was lucky to get the timing right for this shot!

ನೆಚ್ಚಿನ ಅಡವಿ ನಾಗೇನಹಳ್ಳಿ...

ದಾರಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಸಿಗುವ ತೊಂಡೇಬಾವಿಯ ಬಳಿ ಒಂದು ಕೆರೆ...


ಅಮ್ಮನ ಊರಾದ ಅಡವಿ ನಾಗೇನಹಳ್ಳಿ, ಮಧುಗಿರಿ ತಾಲ್ಲೂಕಿನ ಒಂದು ಕುಗ್ರಾಮ.
ತೋಟದ ಕಡೆಗೆ ಹೋದಾಗ ಕ್ಲಿಕ್ಕಿಸಿದ ಒಂದಷ್ಟು ಕ್ಷಣಗಳು...

ಮತ್ತೆ ಬುದ್ಧಿ ಕಲಿಸಿದ ಕಾಗೆ; 'ಸರ್ವೈವಲ್ ಒಫ್ ದ ಫಿಟ್ಟೆಸ್ಟ್'

ಬೆಂಗಳೂರು ಕಾಂಕ್ರೀಟ್ ಕಾಡಾಗುತಿದ್ದರೂ ಕಾಗೆಗಳು ಮಾತ್ರ ಹೆಚ್ಚೇ ಆಗಿವೆ ಎಂಬುದು ನನ್ನ ಅನಿಸಿಕೆ. ಎಲ್ಲೆಡೆ ಮರಗಳು ಉರುಳುತ್ತಿದ್ದರೂ ಕಾಗೆಗಳು ಹೇಗಪ್ಪ ಉಳಿದಿವೆ ಎಂಬುದು ತಲೆ ಕೆರೆದುಕೊಳ್ಳುವಂಥಹಾ ವಿಷಯವೇ!

ಇತ್ತೀಚಿಗೆ ಮನೆ-ಕಟ್ಟುವವರ(ಬಾರ್-ಬೆಂಡರ್ಸ್, ಮೇಸ್ತ್ರಿ) ಬಳಿ ಮಾತಾಡುತ್ತಿದ್ದಾಗ ತಿಳಿದು ಬಂದಿದ್ದೇನೆಂದರೆ, ಕಾಗೆಗಳು ಮಾನವರು ಮನೆ ಕಟ್ಟಲು ಬಳಸುವ ಬೈಂಡಿಂಗ್-ವೈರ್ ಗಳಿಂದ ಗೂಡುಗಳನ್ನು ಕಟ್ಟಲು ಕಲಿತಿವೆ ಎಂದು...
ಈ ಕಾರಣಕ್ಕೆ ಮೇಸ್ತ್ರಿ ಬೈಂಡಿಂಗ್-ವೈರ್ ಗಳನ್ನು ಕಾಗೆಗಳಿಗೆ ಸಿಗದಂತೆ ಬಚ್ಚಿಡುತಿದ್ದ...!

ಮೇಸ್ತ್ರಿಯ ಜೊತೆ ಮಾತಾಡುವ ಎರಡು ದಿನಗಳ ಮುಂಚೆಯಷ್ಟೆ ಮರದ ಕಡ್ಡಿಯ ಬದಲು ವೈರ್ ಹಿಡಿದ ಕಾಗೆಯ ಮೂರ್ಖತನಕ್ಕೆ ನಾನು ಮರುಗಿದ್ದೆ. ಕಾಗೆಯ ಬುದ್ಧಿಶಕ್ತಿಯನ್ನು ಕಡೆಗಣಿಸಿದ ನಾನು ಮೂರ್ಖನಾಗಿದ್ದೆ ಅಷ್ಟೆ...!

'ಸರ್ವೈವಲ್ ಒಫ್ ದ ಫಿಟ್ಟೆಸ್ಟ್' ಸಿದ್ಧಾಂತಕ್ಕೆ ಕಣ್ಣೆದುರೇ ಕಂಡ ಉದಾಹರಣೆ.

ಸುತ್ತ-ಮುತ್ತಲ ಪ್ರಕೃತಿಗೆ ತಕ್ಕಂತೆ ತಮ್ಮ ಪ್ರಕೃತಿಯನ್ನು ಬದಲಿಸದರೆ ಮಾತ್ರವಲ್ಲವೆ ನಾವು ಉಳಿಯುವುದು? ಜಾಣ ಕಾಗೆಗಳು ತಮ್ಮ ಬದುಕನ್ನು ಸುರಕ್ಷಿತಗೊಳಿಸುವುದನ್ನು ಆಗಲೇ ಕಲಿತಿವೆ...ನೀವು ಕಲಿತಿರುವಿರಾ??

-ಶ್ರೀನಿವಾಸ್, ೧೮ ಸೆಪ್ಟೆಂಬರ್ ೨೦೦೭

(ಕಾಗೆಯು ನನಗೆ ಕಲಿಸಿದ ಮೊದಲ ಪಾಠದ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ಕುತೂಹಲವಿದ್ದಲ್ಲಿ ಓದಿ:
ಜಂಬದ ಕಾಗೆ )